Delusions

Attention bystandards, be informed now that all days, formerly known as Friday, between the months of May and October are to henceforth be known as Ribday.

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Enough about ribs, I recently ordered “The God Delusion” By Richard Dawkins. I heard some interesting things about him and his book. I already agree with his general point of view, but I gonna check out his full point of view in regards to religion and scienece. This book has been quite a hot topic in this field, encouraging a number of response books, I want to see what all the fuss is about. I expect the book to arrive by Tuesday. I assume it will take be a bit of time to finish reading it, but I’ll probable post some of my thoughts on the book by next Ribday.

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Just for later comparison here are some of my views:

-There is no god

-Spirituality can be important at times, but religion overall can be dangerous due to perceived notions as to how our world works.

-While we have the freedom of religion, we should consider keeping it away from kids, or at least certain aspects of it.

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21 Responses to Delusions

  1. myfoxmystere says:

    Hitto-san,

    Just something to think about: in the event you remain an atheist to the day you die, if you find out that there is a God Almighty, that His Name is Jesus, and you’re asked why you should be let into Heaven when the words of Jesus as quoted from the Bible are “I Am The Way, The Truth And The Life – No Man Comes To The Father Except Through Me” which means that the only way to get into heaven is to ask Jesus to forgive you for your imperfections while you are alive and breathing on earth, what will you say? Just a thought Hitto-san!

    The ball is in your court!

  2. hittosan says:

    I’ll say something along the lines of “at least I didn’t twattle little boys”

    IF, and I stress IF there is a heaven, then there would have to be a god, I assume almighty as previously suggested. He…err it would be intelligent enough to know that I did my best as a human being to do the right thing. IF there is a god, it would laugh solemnly in the face of all this bible thumping.

  3. dprin339 says:

    well sadly hitt, there is only ONE way to heaven. the “good works” you claim are NOT what gets you there…….mystere is absolutely RIGHT.
    works do NOT get one into the gate…………….

    • hittosan says:

      So let me get this straight, I could be mother Theressa, but I wouldn’t get into heaven simply because I’m an atheist and I chose the more logical path… Sounds like Jesus needs to get his priorities straight. But I can’t say I’m worried about it anyway.

      Really, religious beliefs are BS as it is, be it: Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Norse, Shintoism, (I’ll give Buddhism a pass for it’s lack of deities), Hinduism, Greek, Roman and even Native American. The Idea of a deity is laughable at best when thinking logically. But I can ask “What Ifs” as well.

      What if…

      You’re right about heaven and hell and god, but you’re wrong about Jesus. Instead the prophet/savior is Muhammad and we’ll all in fact go to hell for being greedy heathen Americans.

      or

      God is really the evil one and satin is in fact the one trying to save us from the great deceptions of Jesus. (Kinda like a political campaign)

      or

      Shiva will come wring our necks for eating meat.

      or

      “just insert the ideas of a different religion, maybe even Scientology”

    • polarbear20 says:

      And that’s why I disagree with religion and especially despise Protestantism. This whole “faith” thing and if you don’t have “faith” and follow the rules this particular deity supposedly wrote…

      So tell me, I could be a good person, give away every penny I have feeding, clothing and giving medical attention to the poor around the world and the US, but because I don’t have “faith” in YOUR deity, I’m “unworthy of the gate”?

      But, but, a piece of human feces like George Rekers who pollutes minds with homophobic bullshit and has a gay lover. OR Pat Robertson who takes poor and old people for their last pennies while he lives in big houses and has private jets. OR people like Fred Phelps who desecrate military funerals with homophobic messages. OR priests, ministers, religious people who molest children. What about them? They followed the rules(mostly), they hated the right people according to ‘the book’. What will happen to them?

  4. HybridTalk says:

    With all the talk in the air about racism, I would like to say that there are really two kinds of people. You can find them discussed in the Bible, 1 Corinthians 1:18, it reads “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

    One group of people are “the perishing” group. They don’t believe in Christ, likely atheists, but may just be only antagonist toward God. They embrace their sin and reject everything of God. In some cases they make up new false gods who resemble themselves, and who honor their sinful appetites.

    Then there is the group call those “Being Saved. “ They have examined themselves and recognized they are sinners who have rebelled against God and have lived a life worthy of His wrath.

    The perishing group thinks they are good people and if there is a heaven then they will find a way to meet the requirements by their good deeds. They have a scale at the heart of their beliefs.

    The Being Saved group has been transformed by their Creator and given the ability to see they have no goodness in them. They (we) can’t save ourselves but through Christ’s sacrifice we can be saved. “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” – (2 Cor 5:21 NIV)

    You are free to believe what you want to Hittosan. I was not always a Christian. I rejected it in my early adult years (18-26). But I came to learn the truth. Was transformed by the truth of the Gospel. I was once in the perishing group but thankfully someone challenged me to make sure I wanted to be in that group and thanks be to the power of God that I took the time to investigate.

    The real delusion is that we exist apart for a Creator God, and that we are all here by accident.

  5. mzkatie says:

    Hitt: “You’re right about heaven and hell and god, but you’re wrong about Jesus. Instead the prophet/savior is Muhammad and we’ll all in fact go to hell for being greedy heathen Americans.”

    Thanks, Hitt! My thoughts exactly. Hybrid, if you could, what’s your feelings on this? Are all other religions wrong? Will they all be sent to Hell for worshipping a different god than yours? You think your God is the “right” one, but there are young men/women blowing up themselves (and our marines), on the regular, for a different god than yours. What is your opinion on these young men/women? Have they been brainwashed? Because if you say yes, I’m sure the same could be said about you.

    • HybridTalk says:

      Miss Katie – “Thanks, Hitt! My thoughts exactly.”

      What, that we are going to hell for being greedy Americans? Take out American’s and replace it with sinners, and you would be right.

      “Are all other religions wrong?” – Yes. Other religions seek to answer the “God question” by bringing Him down to man’s level. The God of the Bible made Himself known through creation, and through His word, and through his prophets and finally through His Son, Jesus. The other beliefs have a scale in the center of their faith hoping to weigh their good against their bad. The center of the Christian faith has a Cross, and Jesus atoning sacrifice for our sins.

      “Will they all be sent to Hell for worshipping a different god than yours?” – They will spend eternity in Hell for rejecting the one true God and rebelling against Him. Those who worship themselves and those who worship different gods are all in the perishing group. All of us are in the perishing group until we no longer see the message of the cross being foolishness.

      “You think your God is the “right” one, but there are young men/women blowing up themselves (and our marines), on the regular, for a different god than yours. What is your opinion on these young men/women? Have they been brainwashed?” – They are of the perishing group and they embrace their perishing by causing others to perish for their false god while they show contempt for life (God’s creation) rather than give up their pride and bow their knee to the one true God. Satan likes mankind in bondage to sin and death, so he crafts his false religions to appeal to the sin nature of mankind. God knows we have a severe problem and He seeks to provide the redemption through His Perfect Son for us. But we are all sinners, and we don’t like being told we are bad people. That offends us, so we reject (over and over) the one who came to save us, as we droned in our sin. It is so sad.

      • hittosan says:

        Your comment does alot to let me understand your point of view and to differentiate your religions from others.

        However, it is this sort of belief that can destroy humanity. Because you are assuming a higher power, you are leaving your life and subsequently your moral structure in this higher power. Besides the simple fact that fallible humans are interpreting this higher power, you are essentially forfeiting your ability to reason. Plenty of times religion will see to a proper morality, but when it is wrong, who are you to question the higher power if you accept being lesser in some cosmic relationship.

        Not to mention the fallible interpretations. I have some relatives in the area of West Salem. They go to a church were politics some how comes into the mix. Most the people down there are convinced that Obama is evil. Now I understand people won’t agree with his politics, but to suggest that he is evil is whole different ball game. None of these church patrons are really questioning this because the pastors will attach a few biblical quotes to the political rhetoric. Is this moral or just, is that the word of god?

  6. mzkatie says:

    My one question left is… are murderers allowed into Heaven? If they seek God while spending the rest of their lives behind bars… If they seek redemption.. If they recognize they are sinners who have rebelled against God and lived a life worthy of his wrath… If they repent and ask for forgiveness… If they see they have no goodness in them… If they give up their pride and bow their knee to the one true God… will murderers be allowed into Heaven?

    John Frazier. Know him? Me either. However, I do know Jesse Burns. I know that John shot Jesse in the top of his head while Jesse lay on the street. I know that John maliciously pulled the trigger of that gun with the intent to kill Jesse. I know that John ran away and bragged about what he did.

    John will sit in jail, hopefully, for the rest of his life. He will not have nightmares about what Jesse looked like lying in the hospital bed. He doesn’t know what Jesse looked like that day, or the 5 days following while his body struggled to hold onto life. While he sits in jail, I wonder if he will seek God. Would your God forgive him? Would you God let John Frazier into Heaven? John Frazier, 17 years old, poor-ish, black, living with Mommy in a “community” for those with lesser incomes, mixed with the wrong crowd, etc. Would your God forgive if John asked for forgiveness?

    Because if a murderer like John Frazier can get into Heaven, you cannot fathom the immensity of the fuck I do not give about going to Heaven.

  7. HybridTalk says:

    Mz Katie – “My one question left is… are murderers allowed into Heaven?”

    Simple answer is no, they are not allowed. Jesus testifies that. “[regarding heaven] Outside are the dogs [not your pets but evil rebels who oppose God], those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.” (Rev 22:15 NIV)

    The Apostle Paul expands on the list a little in this, “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders {10} nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

    Then he adds, “And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Cor 6:9-11 NIV)

    Translation: Those who practice evil, which is all of us, will not enter heaven on our own merit. However we were all in one or more of those categories at one time, but after Christ makes us new and we are forgiven our sin we are not seen by God the Father as those criminals of the past. Instead we are seen as forgiven sinners and that should be a great comfort for all of us. After all, who among us is perfect all the time and without sin? We should all be thankful God has provided a way of forgiveness, not rebel all the more against Him because we can’t understand His method of grace. We are no longer those things.

    The gospel of Luke records some of the last events of the crucifixion of Jesus. While he was on the cross we read, “One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at [Jesus]: “Aren’t you the Christ? Save yourself and us!” {40} But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? {41} We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” {42} Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” {43} Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:39-43 NIV)

    It is possible that the one criminal hanging on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him was a murder. Rome crucified insurrectionists and especially those who took the lives of Romans. We see that one criminal repented of his sins, recognized his failure and joined the “being saved” group while the other stood firm in his rebellious convictions and died as part of the “perishing group”, literally.

    “John Frazier. Know him? Me either. However, I do know Jesse Burns. I know that John shot Jesse in the top of his head while Jesse lay on the street. I know that John maliciously pulled the trigger of that gun with the intent to kill Jesse. I know that John ran away and bragged about what he did.

    “John will sit in jail, hopefully, for the rest of his life. He will not have nightmares about what Jesse looked like lying in the hospital bed. He doesn’t know what Jesse looked like that day, or the 5 days following while his body struggled to hold onto life. While he sits in jail, I wonder if he will seek God. Would your God forgive him? Would you God let John Frazier into Heaven? John Frazier, 17 years old, poor-ish, black, living with Mommy in a “community” for those with lesser incomes, mixed with the wrong crowd, etc. Would your God forgive if John asked for forgiveness?
    Because if a murderer like John Frazier can get into Heaven, you cannot fathom the immensity of the f$*& I do not give about going to Heaven.”

    I don’t know John. I do Christ. I know that Christ knows our hearts, and we can’t fool him. If this John Frazier truly does repent, he would be forgiven, just like I was forgiven of my rebellion and sin against God. Just like Christ would forgive you of all your rebellion and sin against God. In the end, all the crimes we commit against others is really directed toward God. By not respecting God as creator we diminish His image of man and take a life. Still, murder isn’t the greatest sin. Loving and practicing falsehood with regards to the truth God has revealed is worse.

    I can assure you that when your heart is changed and you are given a new life in Christ, you won’t dwell on people like John Frazier being in heaven. You will be more interested that you are there and with Christ, the lover of your soul. I hope you consider these things Katie. In God’s eyes, because of His perfect holiness, He sees all of us as those worthy of His wrath.

    Consider what Jesus said about us and Him… “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. {17} For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. {18} Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. {19} This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. {20} Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. {21} But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” (John 3:16-21 NIV)

  8. mzkatie says:

    I’m not a closed book. However jaded & burned I may be, I don’t think it has affected my ability to be open minded & grow & learn. So, please forgive me, but I AM considering.

    He made the rules & knew they were going to be broken. He is willing to forgive those who are truly sorry for their sins. That’s all good, because people make mistakes & bad decisions.

    But murder, really? I know, I know.. we can forgive John because God has forgiven us. Well, you.

    However, John is not a US Marine who killed an enemy to protect his company, or killed an Afghan civilian, in crossfire, on accident. He deliberately, maliciously pointed a gun at an unarmed, vulnerable person’s head & pulled the trigger, intent on causing that person’s death. Murder like that is the ultimate crime. Judges give the death penalty over stuff like that. He would have faced it had he been an adult at the time of the crime.

    The death penalty. The worst punishment of all. It seems pointless knowing that monsters who have committed SICKENING crimes can just be forgiven, if only they examine themselves, see they have no goodness in them, recognize they are sinners who have rebelled and lived a life of sin worthy of His wrath.

  9. hybridtalk1 says:

    Hittosan, thanks for your thoughtful responses.

    “Your comment does alot to let me understand your point of view and to differentiate your religions from others. However, it is this sort of belief that can destroy humanity. Because you are assuming a higher power, you are leaving your life and subsequently your moral structure in this higher power.”

    Destroy humanity? How is that? The Christian faith has advanced positive conditions in the world. Consider how it helped through development of hospitals, medical care, education, altruism, freedom, economics, the arts etc. If you think about the worst poverty, disgusting living conditions and religious and human persecution that exists on Earth today it is in countries where they’ve have no positive exposure to Jesus Christ and are most likely atheistic cultures. Consider Albania or Romania during the Soviet Block era. Consider the Soviet Block and how they sought to destroy humanity, one person at a time with their Communist Atheism.

    I am not sure what you mean about me leaving my life and moral structure in the hands of the higher power. Can you expand on that for me please?

    “Besides the simple fact that fallible humans are interpreting this higher power, you are essentially forfeiting your ability to reason.”

    As a Christian I learned that in my life of rebellion I didn’t reason well at all. I thought I did, I mean abortion made perfect sense in those days. When I was transferred from the kingdom of death to the kingdom of life I was able to reason without the full influence of sin on my thinking like before being in Christ. To understand the Scriptures and God’s purposes in history, you have to be able to reason, and if you are a reasonable person, you will see what I mean. You can’t be a Christian and walk in faith unless you have reasoned it out and considered your decision. But the perishing group, they have no spiritual discernment, because they have not been freed by Christ, so in the rebellion and sin’s prison their reason is flawed by the deprivation that is total. Not that Christians have perfect reasoning skills; I could never make that claim. However we have been given the grace to reason our position regarding sin and God’s holiness.

    “ Plenty of times religion will see to a proper morality, but when it is wrong, who are you to question the higher power if you accept being lesser in some cosmic relationship. “

    Can you give me an example of what you mean from that “Plenty of times”? Thanks.

    “Not to mention the fallible interpretations. I have some relatives in the area of West Salem. They go to a church where politics some how comes into the mix.”

    Not a problem so long as ‘politics’ doesn’t become an idol. That is one of the failures of the American Christian. We forget to live for God and instead seek to bring heaven to earth, to America. That can’t happen. It is an idol. Doesn’t mean we can’t be involved in politics though. So long as we remember that Jesus is Lord of all.

    “ Most the people down there are convinced that Obama is evil.”

    From a biblical perspective, all have sinned. All are in rebellion, and I guess that makes us all evil in the eyes of the Lord. Even Obama, you and me. Still, He seeks to resore us. Why do we reject that free gift?

    “Now I understand people won’t agree with his politics, but to suggest that he is evil is whole different ball game. None of these church patrons are really questioning this because the pastors will attach a few biblical quotes to the political rhetoric.”

    In our church, our pastor reminds us when he begins to teach that he is just a man and we need to check what he says against the word of God. We sit with out Bibles open and we reason what he teaches against what we read and know. Can’t speak for your relatives and their place. Scripture teaches we have two or more witnesses before looking into a matter like this. But what if we apply the same standards to athiests and say that we know some athiests who are for the theift of one mans earnings to give to another. Would this poison the whole well of athiests or would be an isolated issue? Maybe your judgement is wrong since you are only a fallible man who could be interpereting peoples motives incorrectly?

    “ Is this moral or just, is that the word of god?”

    To teach that Obama specifically is evil? I would have to know the context of the sermon. But to just say “Obama is evil” and not also include, “like the rest of us, and just like the rest of us he too needs Christ to redeem him” would be wrong (IMHO). The word of God would be: “(Isa 53:6-10 NIV) We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. {7} He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. {8} By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken. {9} He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. {10} Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.”

    • hittosan says:

      Destroy humanity? How is that? The Christian faith has advanced positive conditions in the world. Consider how it helped through development of hospitals, medical care, education, altruism, freedom, economics, the arts etc. If you think about the worst poverty, disgusting living conditions and religious and human persecution that exists on Earth today it is in countries where they’ve have no positive exposure to Jesus Christ and are most likely atheistic cultures. Consider Albania or Romania during the Soviet Block era. Consider the Soviet Block and how they sought to destroy humanity, one person at a time with their Communist Atheism.

      – Religion will destroy humanity through human interpretations; witch hunts, crusades, honor killings, floggings (of women who show skin), stonings (of gays or heratics), suicide bombings, jihads. Just to name a few “interpretations”.

      No doubt humanity needs a moral structure, but a moral structure can exist without religion.

      It’s good to promote atheism, it encourages free thought and individual liberation, but communist don’t represent atheists, communists are against the freedom of religion, freedom of religion (without being a paradox) includes the right to be an atheist. Communists just have to be atheist by default.
      —-
      I am not sure what you mean about me leaving my life and moral structure in the hands of the higher power. Can you expand on that for me please?

      – simply put you are putting your moral structure in the hands of the bible and it’s assumed divinity.

      Do you really believe homosexuality is wrong, or do you believe that just because the bible says it is? Same on really any other subject. (thou shalt not kill, so why would we ever need a gun)
      ——–
      Can you give me an example of what you mean from that “Plenty of times”? Thanks.

      – religion has inspired charity, among other decent acts either through legitimate inspiration or through fear of hell. But of course we’ve seen religions dark side to0.

      —-
      To teach that Obama specifically is evil? I would have to know the context of the sermon. But to just say “Obama is evil” and not also include, “like the rest of us, and just like the rest of us he too needs Christ to redeem him” would be wrong (IMHO). The word of God would be: “(Isa 53:6-10 NIV) We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. {7} He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. {8} By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken. {9} He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. {10} Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.”

      – They are not just saying he is evil in a political sense, they are being coaxed into thinking he is anti-christ himself, sent to brand his mark on our foreheads.

  10. hybridtalk1 says:

    MzKatie – “Murder like that is the ultimate crime. Judges give the death penalty over stuff like that. He would have faced it had he been an adult at the time of the crime. “
    —-

    Jesus was asked his opinion of the greatest commandment. “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Mat 22:36-40 NIV)

    To God the greatest command is to Love Him with all our hearts, soul and minds. So by not doing that, we commite the ultimate crime. Not easy for us to understand because we don’t really think to do those things, while we rebel against Him. Sort of takes the fun out of rebellion…
    —–

    “The death penalty. The worst punishment of all. It seems pointless knowing that monsters who have committed SICKENING crimes can just be forgiven, if only they examine themselves, see they have no goodness in them, recognize they are sinners who have rebelled and lived a life of sin worthy of His wrath.”
    —-

    Pointless if you don’t think you are also worthy of God’s wrath for your own sins.

    Consider this, when John shot Jesse Burns, God was not indifferent. The reality is that when John pulled the trigger, he was really taking a shot at God. It is written:) “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man.” (Gen 9:6) Still, in spite of our evil ways God tells us “Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. (Gen 8:21)

    God has made a way for all of us stiffnecked rebellious lawbreakers to return to Him and His method was through His son, Jesus. More information upon request.

  11. myfoxmystere says:

    Here’s another thing to ponder: Why would God send His Only Son to die for us? Now since Jesus died on the cross so that man could live in heaven forever, under the condition that they believe that Jesus died for them, and that they ask Jesus to forgive them of their sins, why would God allow anyone else into heaven, if they heard the message and rejected it?

    Serious stuff!

  12. myfoxmystere says:

    By the way, salvation is a gift from God, not something one can earn with any kind of work! Read about the crucifixion of Christ in the Bible, where there are 2 thieves on the crosses next to Jesus…one of them gets into heaven; the other dies in his deeds.

    • hittosan says:

      Why would god send his only son to die for us? He could just as easily snap his fingers and let however lead a decent life into heaven.

      As compelling as jesus and salvation and damnation can be, a quote from the bible really doesn’t make it so. I spent a long time in catholic school learning about jesus and the bible, yet I still laugh at the concept of a supernatural diety. Society may be content to tell me that I will burn in hell, but I am confident that in the end we all share the same fate, After all, Genesis 3:19 says…

  13. hybridtalk1 says:

    Hitt –
    Hitt- Religion will destroy humanity through human interpretations; witch hunts, crusades, honor killings, floggings (of women who show skin), stonings (of gays or heratics), suicide bombings, jihads. Just to name a few “interpretations”.

    HT – Right, because compared to those, the death toll from atheistic nations is so much smaller. So much for being able to reason correctly. When we add up the deaths by atheist leaders and their followers we get 72 million (known) killed by Mao in China, 40 million (known) by Stalin and other totalitarian states like Korea, Cuba and Romainia, Cambodia and you come to some 130 million murdered by those who believe the Marxist atheist tennents. “God is dead” they say, “and everyone who doesn’t agree with our beliefs.” That is just an estimate of those who were born that atheists killed. The number increases exponetionaly when we add those killed by abortion. That is another 65 million a year. It isn’t Christians who support killing babies it is atheists. Reason it out Hitt. I used to wonder why these atheists dictators came in and killed all the college professors, and intelects, and Christians. After looking into it I learned that they had to kill off everyone who could provide a history of how life was before the atheist dictator took over so no one would be able to compare their misory under atheistic rule vs the old way that the atheists demonized.
    ——
    Hitt – No doubt humanity needs a moral structure, but a moral structure can exist without religion.

    HT – Sure it can, but what authority backs up that moral structure? Rules today can be changed tomorrow. Rights are given to men by men, and therefore can be revoked by men, or applied unevenly. Not so with God’s morals. The all apply equally to all His creation. They can never be revoked or redefined on a whim to accommodate the will of men.

    ——–
    Hitt – It’s good to promote atheism, it encourages free thought and individual liberation, but communist don’t represent atheists, communists are against the freedom of religion, freedom of religion (without being a paradox) includes the right to be an atheist. Communists just have to be atheist by default.

    HT – Strange though how all communists are atheists even though not all atheists are communists. Sort of like most terrorists are muslims, but not all muslims are terrorists. Still a path of death remains.

    ———-

    Hitt – Do you really believe homosexuality is wrong, or do you believe that just because the bible says it is? Same on really any other subject. (thou shalt not kill, so why would we ever need a gun)

    HT – Sure homosexuality is wrong. Male and female parts compliment each other and have a purpose. God’s word just confirms this. A gun is useful for preserving property rights, and one’s life. That is biblical. The “not kill” is defined as purposeful taking of a life. You know, premeditated murder, like abortion or the imprisonment and elimination of political prisoners.

  14. hittosan says:

    What your doing is quite dubious, you are comparing atheist and communists as one in the same. An atheist in simply one who doesn’t believe in any god. A communist just has atheism as part of themselves. A communist kills because they are controlling and tyrannical. You might be thinking that the same thing applies to the crusaders and conquistadors, but it doesn’t. They are specifically killing in the name of their (morally righteous) lord, they are motivated by their beliefs, to murder. Communists don’t kill in the name of their lord, because they don’t have one, communists kill because they are just bad people. They don’t like religion, so they destroy it, they don’t like other things as well, so they destroy it.

    “Not so with God’s morals. The all apply equally to all His creation. They can never be revoked or redefined on a whim to accommodate the will of men.” – Hybrid

    “A gun is useful for preserving property rights, and one’s life. That is biblical. The “not kill” is defined as purposeful taking of a life.” – Hybrid

    That sounds like a contradiction to me. I’m with you on gun rights and protecting your own property as well as the idea of purposefully taking a life (with exceptions on the abortion debate). However because you are a christian, you aren’t allowed to contradict god’s words, and that’s exactly what you just did. Can’t say there is a asterisk next to the phrase “Thou shalt not kill”

  15. hybridtalk1 says:

    Hitt – What your doing is quite dubious, you are comparing atheist and communists as one in the same.

    HT – Well, ask any communist and see if he disagrees with me.


    Hitt – An atheist in simply one who doesn’t believe in any god. A communist just has atheism as part of themselves.

    HT – So then you are saying a true atheist is one dimensional. Interesting reasoning.

    Hitt – A communist kills because they are controlling and tyrannical.

    HT – And because they believe there is no god and no eternal consequences to their actions, because they are atheists.

    —-

    Hitt – You might be thinking that the same thing applies to the crusaders and conquistadors, but it doesn’t. They are specifically killing in the name of their (morally righteous) lord, they are motivated by their beliefs, to murder.

    HT – Well I think that history has shown that a majority of the Crusaders were killing to satisfy the flesh, and lust for power and privilege.

    —-
    Hitt – Communists don’t kill in the name of their lord, because they don’t have one, communists kill because they are just bad people. They don’t like religion, so they destroy it, they don’t like other things as well, so they destroy it.

    HT – Atheists on steroids.

    —-

    Hitt – That sounds like a contradiction to me. I’m with you on gun rights and protecting your own property as well as the idea of purposefully taking a life (with exceptions on the abortion debate). However because you are a christian, you aren’t allowed to contradict god’s words, and that’s exactly what you just did. Can’t say there is a asterisk next to the phrase “Thou shalt not kill”

    HT – What makes you think I would use the gun to kill the intruder? Is that the only choice? Can’t I shout to injure so they can’t hurt me or my family? If someone breaks into a house to do evil they are responsible for the loss of their own lives.

    (Exo 21:12-14 NIV) “Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death. {13} However, if he does not do it intentionally, but God lets it happen, he is to flee to a place I will designate. {14} But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.

    See it is about intent. “Do not murder” is about intentionally taking the life of someone. Planned malice aforethought.

    God gave the Israelites guidelines on this. If a life was taken by someone who accidentally they were allowed to live in a city of refuge. You can read about it here.

    (Num 35:10-30 NIV) “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you cross the Jordan into Canaan, {11} select some towns to be your cities of refuge, to which a person who has killed someone accidentally may flee. {12} They will be places of refuge from the avenger, so that a person accused of murder may not die before he stands trial before the assembly. {13} These six towns you give will be your cities of refuge. {14} Give three on this side of the Jordan and three in Canaan as cities of refuge. {15} These six towns will be a place of refuge for Israelites, aliens and any other people living among them, so that anyone who has killed another accidentally can flee there. {16} “‘If a man strikes someone with an iron object so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. {17} Or if anyone has a stone in his hand that could kill, and he strikes someone so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. {18} Or if anyone has a wooden object in his hand that could kill, and he hits someone so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. {19} The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death; when he meets him, he shall put him to death. {20} If anyone with malice aforethought shoves another or throws something at him intentionally so that he dies {21} or if in hostility he hits him with his fist so that he dies, that person shall be put to death; he is a murderer. The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death when he meets him. {22} “‘But if without hostility someone suddenly shoves another or throws something at him unintentionally {23} or, without seeing him, drops a stone on him that could kill him, and he dies, then since he was not his enemy and he did not intend to harm him, {24} the assembly must judge between him and the avenger of blood according to these regulations. {25} The assembly must protect the one accused of murder from the avenger of blood and send him back to the city of refuge to which he fled. He must stay there until the death of the high priest, who was anointed with the holy oil. {26} “‘But if the accused ever goes outside the limits of the city of refuge to which he has fled {27} and the avenger of blood finds him outside the city, the avenger of blood may kill the accused without being guilty of murder. {28} The accused must stay in his city of refuge until the death of the high priest; only after the death of the high priest may he return to his own property. {29} “‘These are to be legal requirements for you throughout the generations to come, wherever you live. {30} “‘Anyone who kills a person is to be put to death as a murderer only on the testimony of witnesses. But no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness.

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